Mr. Karganovic, in Tuzla, Mostar, Zenica and Sarajevo, government buildings have been set on fire by protesters and there have been demonstrations across much of the rest of the country. Hundreds have been injured, including policemen. BBC News talks already about „Balkan Spring“...
Karganovic: (laughs) This is not surprising at all. I predicted this a long time ago and I discussed this already with officials of the Republika Srpska last year. It did not happen unexpectedly.
Why is that?
Karganovic: For a long time we have been expecting something like a “color revolution” in the Republika Srpska. The West, the EU and NATO are not really friends of the Serbian entity in Bosnia and Herzegovina – that´s not a secret.
We are talking about geopolitics and not about social problems, right?
Karganovic: Exactly. We are talking about attempts to bring a new pro Western order to the Balkans, to push back Russian influence and to make Bosnia and Herzegovina an EU and NATO colony. And we are talking also about an anti-Serbian movement camouflaged as “social justice” and “pro democracy” groups.
But then the riots would have started for example in Banja Luka, not in Tuzla which is part of the Bosniak-Croat Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Why doesn´t the unrest concentrate on the Republika Srpska?
Karganovic: It is about making all of Bosnia and Herzegovina a “clean state”. The Federation is for the western globalists as disturbing as the Republika Srpska, because it represents also an entity based on national identity. Of course it is easier to start trouble in the Croat-Muslim part, because it already has a mixed population. The recent events are about to establish a new type of state in Bosnia and Herzegovina. For this you need much more slavish pro Western political elite. And something else: If the unrest had started for example in Banja Luka, it would have been very obvious that it is directed against the existence and integrity of the Republika Srpska.
What do you mean by a “clean state”?
Karganovic: I mean a state without the two entities, a centralistic Bosnian state without the political autonomy of the ethnic groups. But for such a state project you need a functioning new elite which doesn´t feel “Croatian” or “Muslim” or “Serbian” - but “Bosnian”. And a pro western elite which integrates Bosnia in the structures of NATO and EU. Further goals, however, are to bring Bosnia as a whole not only into NATO but to integrate it completely within Western European Atlantic structures. As a result, a protectorate enjoying some autonomy here and there is to be transformed to a completely dominated colony. Until today, the Serbian population and the Republika Srpska have been particularly opposed to such integration.
So it is about a “regime change”?
Karganovic: We can call it “regime change” or putsch.
But the protesters don´t call for “regime change” - they call for social and economic change in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Karganovic: It is not happening yet. But please let me explain: The calls for social and economical improvements are totally justified. But already now we can see parallels to the unrest in Ukraine. Protesters call for getting close to the EU, to the West in general. They say: Everything will become better in Bosnia as soon as we start with the European and Western integration. The social and economic problems of Bosnia and Herzegovina are considered suitable to simulate a country-wide protest, where the national identity of the citizens doesn´t play any role anymore. And it is designed to spill over into the Republika Srpska for sure.
But this will not bring any social and economical improvements – on the contrary – it will install chaos in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The social and economic situation will become worse as we see for example in Ukraine...
Karganovic: It is all about that chaos. Within this chaos the infrastructure of the best prepared and trained groups can take power. Many Western NGOs were supporting such an infrastructure in this country over the last few years. You can easily guess who the best organized forces are going to be. The only thing which is not sure is that the economic and social problems will be solved.
The German mainstream newspapers celebrate the unrest in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The left wing alternative German Tageszeitung wrote the headline “Together against nationalism” and cheers to the assumption, that ethnic differences don´t play any role anymore among the younger generation in Bosnia. Until now the Croats as well as the Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina shared the wish of returning one day to their motherlands, Croatia and Serbia. Is this unrest also to establish a sort of a new “Bosnian People” - at least in the mainstream propaganda?
Karganovic: You hit the nail on the head. The new state needs a new people with a new identity. As I repeat myself: especially the Serbian identity is a disturbing factor for any pro Western plans with Bosnia and Herzegovina. So preparations have been going on for some years, as I said already. Also two German foundations are very active here: the conservative Konrad-Adenauer-Foundation and the social democratic Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung. They train and educate the “new elite”. The Konrad-Adenauer-Foundation trains groups for the moment when they come to power in the Republika Srpska. By the way: in Ukraine the Adenauer-Foundation trains the political party of Vitali Klitschko. All these trainings by Western NGOs have the same aim: to create a new pro Western group across all ethnic lines to take power at the right moment. This is the political bridge of collaborators across the entity lines. So the comments you quote from Germany media fit in perfectly within that scenario.
The majority of Croats and Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina will not feel “Bosnian” all of the sudden just because of a new Western trained type of “hipster government” in Sarajevo and a centralized Bosnian state...
Karganovic: For sure not. But we shouldn´t be naive. Those projects take long time – but if we look at what happened to other eastern European states with their “integration” we find sell off of natural resources, liberal market “shock therapy” and so on.
Mr. Karganovic, your opponents would call you now a conspiracy theorist. They would say: “These young people protest for a better a life and you claim they act on geopolitical behalf of others”.
Karganovic: Of course – this is part of the strategy. But let us check the facts. One of the protesting groups is called UDAR...
But UDAR is the Ukrainian party of Vitali Klitschko...
Karganovic: (laughs) Yes, and now we have an UDAR also in Bosnia and Herzegovina. By the way: the Ukrainian UDAR party is a product of the Konrad-Adenauer-Foundation. The Bosnian UDAR recently published a manifesto. In this manifesto they call – besides justified criticism of the social and economic problems - for the “end of nationalism” and for the “start of negations with NATO and EU”.
Mr. Karganovic, you compare the recent events in Bosnia and Herzegovina with the so called “Bulldozer Revolution” in Serbia in 2000. That “revolution” ended with the overthrow of Slobodan Milošević. Where do you see parallels? And who is the Milošević in Bosnia and Herzegovina?
Karganovic: The groups and organizations from 2000 in Serbia in their aims and techniques are very similar to those in Bosnia today. As you mentioned the operation in Serbia ended with the overthrow of president Milošević and a sort of “new orientation” of Serbia itself. Also here the aim is to overthrow Milorad Dodik – the president of Republika Srpska. At the end would come the complete disintegration of the Republika Srpska. Serbia and the Serbians are the disturbing factor in Western globalist plans. These protests are anti-Serbian without using the term anti-Serbian.
But aren´t there Serbs protesting also?
Karganovic: Of course, there are many Serbs among the protest movement. But these protesters believe that their national identity is right now not so important when it is sacrificed for a greater good. Maybe they will wake up with a headache when they come to the realization that they are fight right now for their own destruction. Now they sacrifice their national identity for a better job – but at the end they will have lost their identity and still be jobless or poorly paid.
UDAR is attacking the Republika Srpska in its declarations...
Karganovic: Of course they do. By the way: the Bosnian protest movement uses the Otpor fist as a symbol. “Otpor” (English: Resistance) was the organization which led the protests against Milošević. Otpor was a recipient of funds from US government-affiliated organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), International Republican Institute (IRI), and US Agency for International Development (USAID). And UDAR says in its declarations, “there is only a single, democratic, sovereign and independent state of Bosnia and Herzegovina” and that “the so-called ‘Republica Srpska’ exists only as part of an illegal constitution in the Annex of the Dayton Agreement”. I told you, the protests are anti-Serbian. UDAR claims: “The goal of aggression and genocide against the citizens of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina was to create an ethnically pure Greater Serbia at the expense of the territory of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.” This is logical in the eyes of the protesters: only by the destruction of the Serbian entity can you get a centralistic “new Bosnia,” as UDAR calls it already. Please tell me, could it be more anti-Serbian?
Former “Otpor” members founded the “Center for Applied Nonviolent Action and Strategies” (CANVAS) in Belgrade...
Karganovic: Yes and we shouldn´t underestimate the CANVAS influence on the Bosnian events now. Drawing upon the Serbian experience, CANVAS educates so called “pro-democracy activists” around the world. Right now CANVAS plays a role in the protests in Ukraine for example. About one month ago CANVAS activists and instructors were expelled from Ukraine because they actually were teaching very violent methods. All these ideas are based on the playbook of the US political scientist Gene Sharp. His writings inspire and direct pro Western uprisings and protests round the world. Western intelligence agencies use Sharp´s playbook for their work. CANVAS and the Bosnian UDAR (also the Ukrainian UDAR) base their tactics on Sharp´s instructions for overthrowing governments.
If the government and president of the Republika Srpska know today what will come – what are they doing to react and defend the Serbian entity against the NATO proxies (“peaceful protesters”)?
Karganovic: In my opinion not enough. And we have already in the Republika Srpska our own “Vitali Klitschko” - the “activist” Nikola Dronjak. Although his level of intelligence is simular to Klitschko´s we shouldn´t underestimate those forces which help and support the “protest movement”. Dronjak is working very closely together with CANVAS. We should be more aware of the upcoming danger for this country. But this is unfortunately a common problem of Balkan governments, they are a bit slow – some critics even use the term “lazy”...
But we are not!
Karganovic: (laughs) Of course not!
So what should president Dodik and his government do?
Karganovic: Two important things: The government should inform the people in the Republika Srpska about the backgrounds of these protests; it should name the organizations and their real aims. But then I would remind the president that he is a social democrat. So he should take his social responsibility to improve the social and economic situation in the Republika Srpska and fight corruption. I am convinced that Serbs can solve all these problems without one single NATO or EU advisor on their soil.